Discussion:
Question: Do all diesel engines have glow plugs?
(too old to reply)
v***@sbcglobal.net
2007-01-16 06:21:03 UTC
Permalink
I have a 1973-1976 International Harvester farm tractor, Model 674, 239cu
in. but cannot find the glow plugs. Don't all diesel engines require glow
plugs to get the cylinders up to temperature so the fuel will light off when
compressed? I also have a 1983 GMC 6.2L diesel and a 1982 VW Rabbit diesel
that both have glow plugs. In the winter when the Rabbit is hard starting
or will not start, the problem is usually with one glow plug open (no
continuity). Most glow plugs measure around 1 ohm.

Gary
C. E. White
2007-01-16 15:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@sbcglobal.net
I have a 1973-1976 International Harvester farm tractor, Model 674, 239cu
in. but cannot find the glow plugs. Don't all diesel engines require glow
plugs to get the cylinders up to temperature so the fuel will light off
when compressed? I also have a 1983 GMC 6.2L diesel and a 1982 VW Rabbit
diesel that both have glow plugs. In the winter when the Rabbit is hard
starting or will not start, the problem is usually with one glow plug open
(no continuity). Most glow plugs measure around 1 ohm.
Gary,

Many larger farm tractors don't have glow plugs. My two larger farm tractors
(a Ford 7710 and a Ford 8630) don't. They both have block heaters. The Ford
7710 has a system that dribbles fuel into the intake and ignites it using
something like a glow plug. The Ford 8630 has ether injection (press a
button on the dash to inject ether into the intake while cranking). Both of
the Fords have a button on the injector pump that advances the injector
timing to improve cold start performance. I have a smaller Kubota (M4700)
that does have glow plugs. When I want to start the larger tractors on
really cold days, I usually plug them in for an hour or so. Of the three
systems, the Ford 7710 system that dribbles fuel into the intake seems to
work the best. If you are patient and wait about 90 seconds, it will usually
start a cold engine as long as the temperature is above 5 degrees F or so
(assuming you also pressed the injector advance button). The only complaint
about this system is the lack of any visual indication of its operation.
There is no light, no sound, nothing. You have to go on faith alone. The
Kubota glow plugs work OK as long as the temperature is above 20 degrees F.
Below that and I have add ether to the intake manually. The 8630 will start
with ether assist as long as the temperature is above 32 degrees F. Below
that, you need to warm it up with the block heater to get it to started.

Ed
v***@sbcglobal.net
2007-01-17 07:37:13 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Ed.

I didn't know about the block heater nor the ether technique. I have used
ether to start my boat when the real problem was the points wire was loose
on the ignition coil.

The long story, if you care:
I was the last to water ski late one summer evening. When we stopped I told
the boat driver to turn on the lights. A minute later smoke erupted from
the bilge area. Although I wasn't yet in the boat, I told them to grab the
collapsible two gallon bucket from beneath the seat. Fire extinguisher was
also available but I wasn't thinking clearly when bobbing around 70 feet
behind the boat. They proceeded to fill the bucket with lake water; lift
the engine cover and without any flames present, doused the engine till it
would not start. The lights wiring had been pinched to ground and the
insulation was smoking, but no real fire. By the time I swam back to the
boat it started to get dark. Another boat was flagged down and offered to
tow us back to the marina. The tow boat was sinking but had bilge pump
going continuously to keep it afloat! Once back to the dock I removed the
engine cover and I tried the Ether Technique on the gasoline engine which
acted like it wanted to start, but wouldn't. After spending an hour
troubleshooting the no start problem late at night (tied to the dock on
Shasta Lake in Northern California) the points wire fell away from the
coil(cause of problem). Later an expensive ski was lost overboard while
hunting for our campsite at lake's edge. Never could find the campsite site
and returned to van in parking lot to sleep till daylight. It took most of
the night navigating the length of the lake to arrive at the van.

The wire came loose because a neighbor had completed the tuneup before we
went on vacation and didn't get the wire tight enough.

Now back to the tractor.

Gary
Post by C. E. White
Post by v***@sbcglobal.net
I have a 1973-1976 International Harvester farm tractor, Model 674, 239cu
in. but cannot find the glow plugs. Don't all diesel engines require glow
plugs to get the cylinders up to temperature so the fuel will light off
when compressed? I also have a 1983 GMC 6.2L diesel and a 1982 VW Rabbit
diesel that both have glow plugs. In the winter when the Rabbit is hard
starting or will not start, the problem is usually with one glow plug open
(no continuity). Most glow plugs measure around 1 ohm.
Gary,
Many larger farm tractors don't have glow plugs. My two larger farm
tractors (a Ford 7710 and a Ford 8630) don't. They both have block
heaters. The Ford 7710 has a system that dribbles fuel into the intake and
ignites it using something like a glow plug. The Ford 8630 has ether
injection (press a button on the dash to inject ether into the intake
while cranking). Both of the Fords have a button on the injector pump that
advances the injector timing to improve cold start performance. I have a
smaller Kubota (M4700) that does have glow plugs. When I want to start the
larger tractors on really cold days, I usually plug them in for an hour or
so. Of the three systems, the Ford 7710 system that dribbles fuel into the
intake seems to work the best. If you are patient and wait about 90
seconds, it will usually start a cold engine as long as the temperature is
above 5 degrees F or so (assuming you also pressed the injector advance
button). The only complaint about this system is the lack of any visual
indication of its operation. There is no light, no sound, nothing. You
have to go on faith alone. The Kubota glow plugs work OK as long as the
temperature is above 20 degrees F. Below that and I have add ether to the
intake manually. The 8630 will start with ether assist as long as the
temperature is above 32 degrees F. Below that, you need to warm it up with
the block heater to get it to started.
Ed
r***@capengco.com
2007-01-18 12:58:29 UTC
Permalink
In regards to the Kubota Engine...Some Kubota engines use a timer.
This timer only allows power to the glow plugs for 8 to 10 seconds. If
you continue to hold the key past 10 seconds, the relay kicks out and
the glow plugs go cold. You must start the engine at 10 seconds. The
Kubota engines do not like starting agents. You can blow the rings off
the piston or shatter a piston due to the high compression ratio.
Blockheaters are available for most Kubota engines and a diesel fuel
additive, such as Stanadyne Performance Formula, will help keep the
diesel fuel from gelling at low temperatures.

Randy
Post by C. E. White
Post by v***@sbcglobal.net
I have a 1973-1976 International Harvester farm tractor, Model 674, 239cu
in. but cannot find the glow plugs. Don't all diesel engines require glow
plugs to get the cylinders up to temperature so the fuel will light off
when compressed? I also have a 1983 GMC 6.2L diesel and a 1982 VW Rabbit
diesel that both have glow plugs. In the winter when the Rabbit is hard
starting or will not start, the problem is usually with one glow plug open
(no continuity). Most glow plugs measure around 1 ohm.
Gary,
Many larger farm tractors don't have glow plugs. My two larger farm tractors
(a Ford 7710 and a Ford 8630) don't. They both have block heaters. The Ford
7710 has a system that dribbles fuel into the intake and ignites it using
something like a glow plug. The Ford 8630 has ether injection (press a
button on the dash to inject ether into the intake while cranking). Both of
the Fords have a button on the injector pump that advances the injector
timing to improve cold start performance. I have a smaller Kubota (M4700)
that does have glow plugs. When I want to start the larger tractors on
really cold days, I usually plug them in for an hour or so. Of the three
systems, the Ford 7710 system that dribbles fuel into the intake seems to
work the best. If you are patient and wait about 90 seconds, it will usually
start a cold engine as long as the temperature is above 5 degrees F or so
(assuming you also pressed the injector advance button). The only complaint
about this system is the lack of any visual indication of its operation.
There is no light, no sound, nothing. You have to go on faith alone. The
Kubota glow plugs work OK as long as the temperature is above 20 degrees F.
Below that and I have add ether to the intake manually. The 8630 will start
with ether assist as long as the temperature is above 32 degrees F. Below
that, you need to warm it up with the block heater to get it to started.
Ed
C. E. White
2007-01-19 12:41:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@capengco.com
In regards to the Kubota Engine...Some Kubota engines use a timer.
This timer only allows power to the glow plugs for 8 to 10 seconds. If
you continue to hold the key past 10 seconds, the relay kicks out and
the glow plugs go cold. You must start the engine at 10 seconds. The
Kubota engines do not like starting agents. You can blow the rings off
the piston or shatter a piston due to the high compression ratio.
Blockheaters are available for most Kubota engines and a diesel fuel
additive, such as Stanadyne Performance Formula, will help keep the
diesel fuel from gelling at low temperatures.
Randy
Thanks Randy. I rarely even care about starting the Kubota on cold days. It
is an open tractor. The only reason I have for using a tractor when the
weather is cold is to move hay for my cattle. The Ford 7710 has a cab, so I
much prefer it in bad weather. Of the three tractors the 7710 is the easiest
to start in cold weather, even without a block heater. The intake manifold
heating system is weird but works really well if you have faith. The lack of
a separate switch and the lack of a visual indicator require that you
believe. You have to turn the starting switch past the run position, but not
to the start position and just hold it there for a minute or so against a
spring. There is no light or even a click to tell you anything is happening.
A few year back I lent the tractor to a fellow farmer to move hay. He didn't
believe me when I explained what you had to do to "heat" the tractor so it
would start in cold weather. He thought I was nuts. But then he asked the
mechanic at the tractor dealer and they confirmed what I said. Still, the
best system is to just use the block heater. As long as I remember to park
it near an outlet, I can plug it in, go get a drink, come back, and it is
usually warm enough to start right away.

Ed
v***@sbcglobal.net
2007-01-20 07:07:00 UTC
Permalink
My dad's GMC 6.2L diesel has a 110vac plug for preheating the block but he
passed away 4 years ago and I have no knowledge as to how to use it. I'm
not sure if it only heats the oil in pan or it is also a block heater for
aiding the glow plugs or to keep the block warm. I should know how long to
keep it plugged in or if it is only to keep the block from freezing in below
32 degree weather.

Gary
Post by C. E. White
Post by r***@capengco.com
In regards to the Kubota Engine...Some Kubota engines use a timer.
This timer only allows power to the glow plugs for 8 to 10 seconds. If
you continue to hold the key past 10 seconds, the relay kicks out and
the glow plugs go cold. You must start the engine at 10 seconds. The
Kubota engines do not like starting agents. You can blow the rings off
the piston or shatter a piston due to the high compression ratio.
Blockheaters are available for most Kubota engines and a diesel fuel
additive, such as Stanadyne Performance Formula, will help keep the
diesel fuel from gelling at low temperatures.
Randy
Thanks Randy. I rarely even care about starting the Kubota on cold days.
It is an open tractor. The only reason I have for using a tractor when the
weather is cold is to move hay for my cattle. The Ford 7710 has a cab, so
I much prefer it in bad weather. Of the three tractors the 7710 is the
easiest to start in cold weather, even without a block heater. The intake
manifold heating system is weird but works really well if you have faith.
The lack of a separate switch and the lack of a visual indicator require
that you believe. You have to turn the starting switch past the run
position, but not to the start position and just hold it there for a
minute or so against a spring. There is no light or even a click to tell
you anything is happening. A few year back I lent the tractor to a fellow
farmer to move hay. He didn't believe me when I explained what you had to
do to "heat" the tractor so it would start in cold weather. He thought I
was nuts. But then he asked the mechanic at the tractor dealer and they
confirmed what I said. Still, the best system is to just use the block
heater. As long as I remember to park it near an outlet, I can plug it in,
go get a drink, come back, and it is usually warm enough to start right
away.
Ed
aarcuda69062
2007-01-20 23:41:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@sbcglobal.net
My dad's GMC 6.2L diesel has a 110vac plug for preheating the block but he
passed away 4 years ago and I have no knowledge as to how to use it.
You plug it into any standard 110 volt outlet.
Post by v***@sbcglobal.net
I'm not sure if it only heats the oil in pan or it is also a block heater for
aiding the glow plugs or to keep the block warm.
If it's the factory set up, it is a block heater(s) installed in
one of the freeze plugs. Pre-heats the coolant.
Post by v***@sbcglobal.net
I should know how long to
keep it plugged in or if it is only to keep the block from freezing in below
32 degree weather.
The cast iron block would have frozen some time after it was cast
since the melting point of cast iron is something like 2300*F.

Nothing related here is going to freeze at 32* or below as long
as you have the recommended concentration of anti-freeze in the
cooling system.
Jeff
2007-01-21 19:37:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by C. E. White
Post by r***@capengco.com
In regards to the Kubota Engine...Some Kubota engines use a timer.
This timer only allows power to the glow plugs for 8 to 10 seconds. If
you continue to hold the key past 10 seconds, the relay kicks out and
the glow plugs go cold. You must start the engine at 10 seconds. The
Kubota engines do not like starting agents. You can blow the rings off
the piston or shatter a piston due to the high compression ratio.
Blockheaters are available for most Kubota engines and a diesel fuel
additive, such as Stanadyne Performance Formula, will help keep the
diesel fuel from gelling at low temperatures.
Randy
Thanks Randy. I rarely even care about starting the Kubota on cold days.
It is an open tractor. The only reason I have for using a tractor when the
weather is cold is to move hay for my cattle. The Ford 7710 has a cab, so
I much prefer it in bad weather. Of the three tractors the 7710 is the
easiest to start in cold weather, even without a block heater. The intake
manifold heating system is weird but works really well if you have faith.
The lack of a separate switch and the lack of a visual indicator require
that you believe. You have to turn the starting switch past the run
position, but not to the start position and just hold it there for a
minute or so against a spring. There is no light or even a click to tell
you anything is happening. A few year back I lent the tractor to a fellow
farmer to move hay. He didn't believe me when I explained what you had to
do to "heat" the tractor so it would start in cold weather. He thought I
was nuts. But then he asked the mechanic at the tractor dealer and they
confirmed what I said. Still, the best system is to just use the block
heater. As long as I remember to park it near an outlet, I can plug it in,
go get a drink, come back, and it is usually warm enough to start right
away.
And depending on the drink, you might be plenty warm, too!
Post by C. E. White
Ed
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